HFU Signals identification Wiki

[Token]

This thread over here got me thinking ->  http://www.hfunderground.com/board/index.php/topic,19628.0.html

That Wiki linked in the thread is a nice attempt to put together a tool that listeners can use to identify signals they may come across on a receiver.  While it appears to be specifically aimed at RTL SDR users it could help a broader base.  Unfortunately, as I said in that thread, it appears to have been laid out and the data largely populated by new users to the hobby.  There is nothing wrong with being a new listener, everyone starts out at zero and builds from there.

Now this group on HFU is a bright ....  errr  ..... friendly .... errrrrr .... diverse group of hobbyist, ranging from old hands to newbs.  And as Chris said in the other thread, HFU has a Wiki of its own.  Why not build on the knowledge of the users here and see if we can put together an HF signals identification page with a bit more depth?

But before we start slapping a page together I thought it might be a good idea to float a thread here to arrive at a basic structure and what the contents should be.

So lets put suggestions in this thread towards a basic architecture.  Once we have enough for a basic framework Chris can start the initial entries and we can fill it in.  From that point we can adjust as needed, improving as we go.

T!
I also think it would be a good idea to get suggestions on modes to include in the identification table.

[Token]

My suggestion for a basic framework.

The way I see it this is a guide to identifying types of signals, not necessarily specific transmissions.  I mean identify USB, LSB, AM, CW, RTTY, etc, but not try to identify HF-GCS, which normally uses USB.  Some are going to require identifying the source, for example it would be hard to identify JT65a without the information it is typically a ham transmission and found on ham bands.  And you can't ID the radar PLUTO without, well, IDing it as PLUTO. Because of this maybe a field that denotes typical users, without trying to identify all possible users.

A guide, an outline, of what is in each field needs to be worked out.  Descriptions of minimum data content and form of data for each field.  Define the size of thumbnail images.  And then we build each page so it flows and is familiar, the same basic shape / format for each.  So possibly a front end and then a detailed page on each mode.  Does this format work with Wiki type stuff?

Front page consists of a table format.  The table format is constant from top to bottom, but broken into general types.  The basic data on each mode present in this table, bandwidth, shift, spectral image picture, recorded example, etc.  The goal here is that this table provides the minimum data required to ID the mode, while providing a gateway to a more detailed page describing the mode.  I think the front page should be limited to things you can see on any waterfall, without special tools.  So things like bandwidth and spectral image for audio modes, and shift, number of tones, and spectral image, for data modes.  Save the detailed stuff, baud rates and ACFs, for the detailed page.

Front page table broken into types of transmissions.  Something like "non-data" modes, and "data" modes.  Each type would be broken into further categories.

Non-data modes would include Communications (USB, LSB, CW, etc) and Non Communications (radars, sounders, sweepers, etc).

For data modes include the categories FSK, PSK, MFSK, SELCALL, Image, etc.  Do we consider analogue image modes like WEFAX and SSTV data?  Or non-data?

Within each category list the modes alphabetically.

Each line of the table contains the same set of data, regardless of modes or categories. "Not Applicable" is a valid entry.  Example, voice modes have no need to fill in Shift or number of tones, but those are critical to IDing data modes.

What say yea?  Will this work?  Anyone got other suggestions or a better layout to suggest?

T!

[Token]

The front page table should probably be broken into two parts, not one continuous one, the DATA and Non DATA modes should probably be separate.  However the following is a rough example of how the table might work.  Remember that the Mode name would link to a page with more details, the Spectrum Image would also be on that page, with a thumbnail present here.

Think something along these lines would work?

http://www.tokenradio.net/Radio/SharedFiles/Table_example.htm

T!

[Token]

Mode:  This is the name of the mode being described, not the transmission mode.  FSK, CIS 36-50, Link 11 Clew, AM, USB, CW, Japanese 8 Tone Modem, etc.  Should this column be called something else, like "Name"?  Some signals will not have "official" or known names, but will have common nick names, others are just unknown but commonly seen.  The goal here is not to make a name for every signal, "unknown" or "unidentified" (probably with serialized numbers, we have to separate unknowns some how) are acceptable answers, however that does not mean we can't name things as long as it is not counter to established or commonly used names.  This name shoulld be the link to the more detailed mode specific page for the signal.

Frequency Range (kHz):  This is the range of frequencies that one might find the signal used in.  For some of the modes it will be the entire HF spectrum, but some also have limited frequencies just as a function of user.

Bandwidth (kHz):  This is the normal occupied bandwidth of the signal as defined at some power level.  For example the 3 dB bandwidth will be different than the 20 dB bandwidth.  3, 6, 10, 20, and 40 dB are all commonly used values, depending on the type of signal.

Shift (Hz):  This only applies to data transmissions, and is the spacing between tones of data.  Typically this is used when describing FSK and MFSK data, and is the frequency shift between individual tones.  However multi PSK signals can also have distinct tone center lines.

Number of Tones:  This only applies to data transmissions, and is the number of distinct tone lines seen in the waterfall display.  Typically this is used when describing FSK and MFSK data, however multi PSK signals can also have distinct tone lines.

Key Features:  This is any key feature or features that might help to ID the signal.  Some signals will have very clear features, other less so.

Sources:  This is the source of the signal, the user, service, or in some cases, the transmission site.  Some types of signals will have many, many sources, some will have a single source.

Recording:  This is a link to a recording of the signal.  Guidelines should probably be set on desired recording attributes, i.e bandwidth for digital signals and those kinds of things.

Spectrum Image:  This should be a standard size thumbnail of a larger image on the modes specific data page.  I arbitrarily picked 200 x 200 in my example, but I have no idea if that is a good size or not.  Guidelines should be set on target attributes for the larger image, i.e. it should contain a frequency scale so relative frequency dependant features can be seen, it should contain (if possible) a time scale so that time related features can be seen, etc.


Anyone have any suggestions?  Have I put too much data there?  Too little?  Have I missed an obvious piece of information?

T!

[moof]

This is a great idea.  I often wonder what those strange tones or screeches are.  I'd suggest allowing multiple sound links and having a page where you could upload unknown sounds, filling in as much info as possible and letting the more knowledgeable members try to figure it out.

[Token]

This is a great idea.  I often wonder what those strange tones or screeches are.  I'd suggest allowing multiple sound links

I was thinking that the front page table would have a single sound link per signal, but more could be linked from the detailed signal page that would be there for each signal on the front page table.

More than one sound link on the front table could get a little crowded and cluttered pretty quick.

and having a page where you could upload unknown sounds, filling in as much info as possible and letting the more knowledgeable members try to figure it out.

Might work, but not sure how useful that would end up being, might be too much effort to go to for people to continue to use.  Why not just have a forum for Unknown or Mystery Signals?  Then users could post to there, and as signals were IDed in the forum they could be added to the Signals Identification page, if not already there.

T!

[ChrisSmolinski]

I created a crude mock-up based on part of Token's example: http://www.hfunderground.com/wiki/Signal_Identification
(Don't look too closely, the LSB image is just a horizontal mirror of the USB image, I told you it was crude)

We certainly can have an board for unidentified signals. That's not a bad idea, anyway.
 

[Token]

OK, I played with it a little bit, I think that can work quite well.  Still need to tweak how it is formatted a bit, I think, but pretty close already.

Definately need to link the name of each mode to page for the mode, that way we can put more detail there.

And I think a forum/board for mystery signals is a great ID.  Maybe "HF Mystery Signals".  The focus of the board would be unidentified modes, not unidentified transmissions.  Example, "what is this digital mode" vs "what is this CW signal".

T!

[ChrisSmolinski]

OK, I played with it a little bit, I think that can work quite well.  Still need to tweak how it is formatted a bit, I think, but pretty close already.

Definately need to link the name of each mode to page for the mode, that way we can put more detail there.

Yep, I added links for AM and USB/LSB for now as a test (the latter two both get redirected to generic SSB page that already existed).

And I think a forum/board for mystery signals is a great ID.  Maybe "HF Mystery Signals".  The focus of the board would be unidentified modes, not unidentified transmissions.  Example, "what is this digital mode" vs "what is this CW signal".

T!

I created a board called "HF Mystery Signals" - Unidentified modes - Hearing a digital mode you need help identifying? This is the place

I'm open to suggestions on the board description, to better describe the intent (identifying modes, not actual stations, although I suspect we will get a lot of the latter anyway).

[Token]

Later today, when I have time to set down, I will write a charter, a guide to get the most use from the board and what the goal of the board is, and make it a sticky.

We might want to move this thread in there eventually also.

T!

[ChrisSmolinski]

Token,

The sticky note looks good. Once we have the wiki page running, we can add a link to it in the sticky note.