Warble Jammer (?) 870 Kc and Possible 1040 KC

[NQC]

Hey All,

Apparently there is some type of warble being heard very often  on 870 and maybe at times  on 1040 Kc.

It varies in frequency  , pitch and rate of warble. It is definite sky wave with big  fades  up and down   in PA, on MA SDR ,on HFU SDR,  at my QTH and other QTH's  in E /NE US.

Not sure if intentional or not- sure sounds like though. Similar to  HF warbler jammers  I heard years ago on Shortwave.

Anyone else copying this ?

ANY info appreciated .

NQC

[pinto vortando]

Hearing a warble on both 870 and 1040 here in MI tonight.
The warble is mostly covered by WHO on 1040 but sometimes nearly covers WWL on 870.
The warble nulls on a N-S axis.
Never heard anything like this before on either frequency or AKAIK
anywhere on the AM band.

[NQC]

Hey Pinto,

It’s been a long time since we chatted.

Apparently this “ warble” is kind of a
“ phenomena “, going back a few years .

Really frequent on 870. I have heard it a few times now. But only once on 1040.

Five other frequencies mentioned , either as ultra sporadic or as a really old log.

Some folks are leaning toward Cuba as a possible source.Maybe at big power.



This doesn’t add up so well, since Cuba has broadcasts on 870.

All is speculation so far, no in depth DF bearing or info from what I have seen  online so far.

I have done a good amount of dxing on 870/ 1040 under favorable conditions over the last couple of years . Yet I have only started to hear it lately .

Odd.

NQC

[pinto vortando]

NQC,

This is strange... hard for me to imagine why anyone would waste the time and energy to jam WHO or WWL.
Wonder if it could be some rebel group jamming other stations that just happen to be on 1040 and 870?
This to me is what makes radio interesting.

[pinto vortando]

Same warble again this evening on 870 and 1040.
No notable solar activity in the last 48 hrs so that can be ruled out.
Can't think of any natural phenomenon that would create the warble.
If it is man-made, where is it coming from and why?

[NQC]

Hey Pinto,

The only thing I can come up with is Time Of Arrival DF’ing.

I personally haven’t messed with this.

Supposedly hams have tracked down other hams that are jamming using TOA.

But:

 1- I am not sure if we could ever get three or more folks lined up to do this for AM broadcast interference.For a ham band they use being jammed- maybe.For AMBCB, doubtful.

2- The  Warbler is operating at the same time and frequency as , say WHCU on 870. I am not sure if there is any way to scrub out HCU and get a good read when both are operating on 870.With a solo ham yes. With two at once on 870, not so sure if TOA would work.Maybe .

You would THINK that since apparently this has been going on for some time now, that HCU ( or other affected stations
transmitter engineer) would have filled a complaint with the FCC.

BUT , the FCC is now abysmal re tracking down interference that is not life safety related ( PD/FD , etc) .Also, the Warbler may not be strong enough to affect the “ local “ HCU signal, especially during the day time ,which probably has a ( much ? ) higher listenership anyways.

Stations MAY not care about fringe area or Dx. MAYBE “most”  of the advertising money comes more so from local businesses. So who cares if it’s a problem well outside of town.Especially at night.

Just pure speculation on my part re this angle, I may be full of beans about this.

But this is just a POSSIBLE second reason why it hasn’t been chased down, the other being the FCC not wanting  or able to get involved ( re budget cuts ? ).
 
Re where : folks are looking at Cuba.Maybe 1 or 2 folks in FL could get a loop or ferrite bearing. IF they are not in the Warbler sky wave skip zone/ IF they hear the Warbler on ground wave . WWL 870 MAY not gum up the attempt, being pretty much 90 degrees off from Cuba. Maybe.

Re why - no one has a clue, why would Cuba jam a frequency they are using. If it’s loud here it should be obliterating any local Cuban stations on 870 ( or wherever) . TOTAL mystery.

I think realistically, we are just going to have to “ deal with it “ until ( if ever) it stops on it’s own.


Just spitballing here,

NQC

[Robot Matrix]

Was just reading through this thread since I've been tuning in to MF tonight. Sure enough, there is a warble on 870, where I'm picking up WWL, that fades in and out every other minute or so with the propagation. I'm too close to 1050 here in MO to catch anything on 1040. It IS odd that the pitch and rate of warbling varies rather than being constant. Could it be some weird form of intermod? IDK.

[pinto vortando]

mixing in the ether?  Luxembourg effect?

[Robot Matrix]

After doing some reading on the Luxembourg Effect, I'd have to rule that out. Obviously, we can't all be straight in line with 2 transmitters at the same time.

BTW, tonight I decided to tune in to 1040 kHz and just tune in to the lower sideband in order to cut off the local 1050 kHz transmission and guess what I finally heard??? I heard the warble! So, I too, can confirm this after trying for a few days.... and its obviously still there.

My conclusion is that this is a man made artifact. What kind, is the question. Is it intentional? Is it a jammer, and if so, WHY? What reason would there be?

Somewhere in my mind is lurking the squiggles we can find up around 11/10 meters which are posited to be caused by RF welders. What if these warbles on 870 and 1040 kHz are due to some weird, unknown manufacturing plant of some kind, radiating without their knowledge? It WOULD be very convenient if the FCC were to step up and isolate this once and for all. I'm not sure how we figure this out without some concerted effort to figure it out.

I fly A LOT. I could take a loop antenna to every place I go and take readings with headings. Thoughts?


Listen here: https://jmp.sh/s/WQ2U5cBL22sDZvQs9HoP

[NQC]

Hey All,

I too would rule out the Luxembourg-Gorky effect .FWIW, both YouTube videos about this didn’t do a lot for me.



The reason I “think “ it is man made is the varying rates of speed and frequency.Just purely opinion, but it almost seems to be “customized to be annoying”.

Whether it is INTENTIONAL jamming or  not and it’s source is very hard to prove without a “ government grade” effort.

Robot Matrix: Yup, it’s the same thing that I  ( and a number of other folks ) hear.Your being in MO kind of reinforces the idea it has some pretty big power and may be being copied over an even WIDER area than I thought.

I was “ sort of “ under the “ impression “ that it “may have been “ a more E or NE U.S. thing.Now  I think it may be bigger than I  initially thought .

Re loop bearings:I would think the Warbler would have to be very strong, with the AM station weaker AND near 90 degrees off  from the Warbler bearing.

Not saying don’t try, you may get lucky.

But if the above isn’t met, things  could be tougher.

So , to sum I give it an 80%+ chance of being man made and a 100 % certainty it’s skywave .

I am almost ready to move on past the where or why. I doubt I personally will ever get that info.

But I would be VERY interested if other sources found out more on this.

NQC

[aurora]

Interesting.

Is this the same as the Cuban Wobbler that's been around for years on 870 khz ? It's weak here tonight using my Carolina-Windom but I managed to finally pick it up on an internal loop antenna. I get peaks when pointed towards Cuba.

A search for the Cuban Wobbler found several listings including links to Youtube videos and group discussions.

I hope you find out more information.

[NQC]

Hey Aurora,

Interesting results, thanks for the info .

I must have missed the Warbler party by staying in my cave . The Warbler has been reported active for at least three years. I have checking 870 ( and 1040) under good conditions for years ( I have copied WWL once or twice during  that time ,and WHO more frequently  ). Yet for some bizarre reason, I have  only heard it (sometimes LOUD) within the last month or so.Where was the Warbler when I was copying long Dx

My radio set up isn't ideal , but it doesn't stink THAT bad either.Propagation had been up and down, so it's not like we've entered into huge enhancement  only lately that brought it out of the mud to me .Weird.

Anyhoo.....

NQC

[pinto vortando]

Warble again last evening on both frequencies... this thing has to be man-made, a natural phenomenon would not last as long nor be so consistent.
Never heard this thing before in all my time on AM BCB.